An Anguished Question

Sometimes I post reblogs that are not popular. As a Canadian, perhaps this article is not terribly relevant and yet, we do have our share of “Trump supporters” in this country, many of them being people who consider themselves to be “good Christians” – I know this from personal experience and interaction through my Mennonite Disaster Service volunteer work. I have resigned from MDS not just because of the in-your-face overt religious programming but because so many of the participants in that organization were/are ardent, unthinking, Trump supporters. How anyone calling her/himself a Christian and support Donald Trump is beyond my understanding but it is a fact. What does it mean to be a Trump supporter? This article makes it abundantly clear and it’s not hyperbole.

atheistsmeowatrandom

An anguished question from a Trump supporter: “Why do liberals think Trump supporters are stupid?”
The serious answer: Here’s what we really think about Trump supporters – the rich, the poor, the malignant and the innocently well-meaning, the ones who think and the ones who don’t…
That when you saw a man who had owned a fraudulent University, intent on scamming poor people, you thought “Fine.”
That when you saw a man who had made it his business practice to stiff his creditors, you said, “Okay.”
That when you heard him proudly brag about his own history of sexual abuse, you said, “No problem.”
That when he made up stories about seeing muslim-Americans in the thousands cheering the destruction of the World Trade Center, you said, “Not an issue.”
That when you saw him brag that he could shoot a man on Fifth Avenue and you wouldn’t care, you chirped…

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70 thoughts on “An Anguished Question

      1. Sha'Tara Post author

        Yes, I’ve been reading, and let me tell you, it’s fantastic, what you’re coming up with. I’m fascinated, actually, about Akira’s development.

  1. Sha'Tara Post author

    This is a ‘reply’ to my intro for the article. I just had a couple of hours with my neighbour across the street and we talked about Trump and Christianity. She said that Trump supporters aren’t real Christians, just ult-right white fundamentalists. She reminded me not to forget that in “real” Christianity the basic teachings of Jesus must remain central. Do unto other as you would have them do unto you, for example. The parable of the Good Samaritan. Jesus commenting on the acts of the widow at the temple who put in the treasury for the poor what would be the equivalent of a couple of pennies, but praising her, saying that she had given more than all the rich together because they gave of their abundance whereas she gave all that she had. Certainly if we approached the belief from such perspective, it would be a wonderful thing. But then comes that religion thing, then the politicizing, then the financing and all the good vanishes instantly. In today’s world, for my neighbour Chrystal, what is left of her Christianity?

    Reply
  2. hughcurtler

    Its seems quite clear that Trump has struck a chord among the frustrated and those who feel apart. He represents their frustration with a system that ignores them and keeps them under its foot. They see him as a way out. This involves no thought whatever: it is sheer emotional response.

    Reply
    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      As was the standard response to Hitler’s diatribes in Germany. The attacks upon undesirables, particularly the Jews were mindless gut reactions nurtured by the Reich propaganda. Same old, same old.

      Reply
  3. Lisa R. Palmer

    Most of the Trump supporters I have actually had conversations with (not anonymous internet interactions, which are rarely productive) honestly seem to believe he is a savior of sorts. They all seem to buy into this elaborate conspiracy theory where Trump (sometimes working with a hidden military shadow government) is trying to take down the elite. When confronted with the actual wrongs he has done that affect them negatively, they respond with certainty that “it’s all part of the plan!” Any day now, arrests are going to start occurring and all of the corrupted evil-doers in government and business (including all of the liberals and democrats who are the worst offenders) will be taken down. Once his “job” is accomplished, Trump will resign, and the hidden military shadow government will take over, dismantling the Federal Reserve and the banking system, and resetting things in favor of the middle class…

    The story is sadly consistent. When I try to discuss specific wrongs he has/is doing, I am told immediately that none of it is true; it’s all part of the liberal press’ agenda to villianize Trump because the elite are so afraid of him. When I ask why no progress appears to be being made, as the “soon” they discuss has never wavered, they tell me that the liberal fascists keep fighting him, but he’s almost got everything ready.

    Most of them agree he is a terrible person, “but he’s the only one who could get the job done!” And the saddest/scariest part for me, is that the number of Trump supporters (those who believe some version of this tale) are growing, or at least growing more vocal…

    Reply
    1. hughcurtler

      Yers. It is disquieting. The Germans also thought Hitler was the Messiah and could do no wrong. Frightening parallel here. The depth of resentment here is palpable.

      Reply
      1. Sha'Tara Post author

        Quoting from Lisa’s comment: “Most of them agree he is a terrible person, “but he’s the only one who could get the job done!” What leaves me baffled is, what is the nature of “the job” he’s supposed to have done? Making the rich, richer: was that the mandate these people voted for? It’s pathetic that Trump exacerbated the resentment (against big government) but his supporters praise him for doing the opposite of what he promised them he would do. What’s evident here? Pure brainwashing.

    2. Sha'Tara Post author

      As one of those fortunate (or not) people gifted with past life remembrances I am being treated to a rerun, and a sequel, to Hitler’s coming to power under the failing Weimar republic in Germany of the 1930’s. What I remember most from that time was how the “liberal press” and the useless members of government spent their time vilifying Hitler, a la Charlie Chaplin. Hitler’s stupid mustache and hair style, his mannerisms, his strident appeal to “the masses” while garnering very little support at the beginning eventually gained a foothold through instigating violence against Jews, Poles and Gypsies and open street attacks against those who opposed him or made fun of him. As a personality, he was a clown, about as un-German as could be in every sense and yet for a brief moment he had probably a 90% support at home and threatened to become dictator of a world dominating triumvirate between himself, Mussolini and Tojo . Hitler was manipulated and supported by the military industrial complex exactly as Trump is. As for the possible triumvirate of dictatorial global domination it isn’t such a long jump to see a USA-Russia-China axis of power in the making. The lesser powers, Europe, India, the Middle East, will accept dominance or be forcefully integrated, along with any natural resources and manpower. That’s the whole point in keeping these in political chaos and fighting each other. The more things change, the more they stay the same and history repeats itself. Why? Because people have no remembrances and no vision for anything truly new and evolutionary. Trump may not be the one to turn America into a military dictatorship/homeland security state as became Hitler’s Germany but the die is cast: it will come about, of that there can no longer be any doubt. Duck and cover? Flee? Imagine that, millions of US refugees fleeing to Canada and Mexico, and all for nought as these nations will be “Anschluss’ed” and many, especially in Canada, will cheer as did the Austrians in 1938 as their nation was annexed into the greater Reich.

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    3. stolzyblog

      Makes one have to ask: what exactly is this job? Removing all ‘elites’? Which seems to amount to removing all cultural intelligentsia from America? And eviscerating the U.S. international standing while doing so? And somehow 35% of the US populace can agree that this is the job? It is amazing.

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      1. Sha'Tara Post author

        It is amazing indeed, yet this madness currently led by Trump in the US is nothing new to mankind. The Third Reich Nazis indulged in it and many probably still remember Pol Pot, the dictator of Cambodia and his Khmer Rouge “killing fields” of state sponsored genocide in large part against the intelligentsia of that country. If you wore glasses you were an enemy of the people.

      2. stolzyblog

        All true. And many many more examples. The central question, or one of them, characterizing western civilization right now, however, is whether the values inherent in reason and liberal social thought is sufficient to stand up to such a threat in North America.

      3. Sha'Tara Post author

        I would reply: no. The vaunted values of Western civilization are certainly no better than those of any other civilization, and whatever may have been attained in terms of some social conscience is rapidly being eroded by popular selfishness inherent to belief in capitalism.

      4. stolzyblog

        I do not see how one can compare civilizational values to decide that one is better or not. That is not the question or the idea I am putting out. At the current stage of human evolution, the western worldview is paramount in the world and informs all other cultures; it colors the present moment. In other words, it simply characterizes the present situation. So the question is whether a new renaissance (likely precipitated by chaotic revolution) with entirely new values must arise, or perhaps, if western idealism can be tweaked so as to accomodate newly found realities and implications of it’s ideas. If so, this tweaking would need come from within. I do not know if the answer is ‘no’ or not. I can see at leat one way past this impasse, involving a reintegration of spiritual world conceptions which were excised from western thought in Europe starting in the 16th century. (And these spiritual concepts would need to be married to the scientific reason or rationalism which took hold — but they would have to be new.) What is unclear is if the individuals, sufficient numbers of them, exist, who can will and imagine this transformation into place.

      5. Lisa R. Palmer

        That’s been my question as well. But these Trump supporters I’ve spoken to don’t seem capable of seeing this. They simply blame it on a lying, villianous press, and complain about how no president before Trump has ever been treated so disrespectfully. They literally seem incapable of seeing or understanding how the current admin’s policies affect them negatively!

        As for our international standing? The ones I have spoken to praise Trump for taking a “strong” stance against the “global powers” who have used us, abused us, and taken advantage of us through our “weak” foreign policy and aid. And they have completely bought into the “immigration is bad for ‘real’ Americans” line of bullshit! They don’t even tolerate any attempt to discuss or counter that bit of brainwashing.

        It would all be pretty pathetic if it weren’t so damn scary and disheartening…

      6. stolzyblog

        People do not want to think. They really intensely dislike thinking. They want their thoughts to be passively supplied instead. That is the only explanation I can see.

  4. jim-

    I don’t follow the news, but I can tell you this—It’s not at all that miserable here if that is any indication. We easily get embroiled and bias to our own tendencies or beliefs. The same passion from right or left emerge, just depends on who’s in office. As a non politicker myself, I have no dog in this fight, but things are not any better or worse than they were under Obama. Cherry pick news stories from either side and you can still find whatever you want— by design

    Reply
    1. Lisa R. Palmer

      Perhaps I am guilty of such cherry picking, Jim, but I disagree that things are the same. Maybe it’s just a case of what’s wrong being more vocal and visible, and certainly more obviously biased, but “things” feel less secure and more threatening every day. I simply cannot convince myself that all of this is normal. And certainly I am not experiencing any of the personal benefits the current politics are claiming; I have less, I make less, and I have less security to fall back on. In addition, I have seen firsthand the silencing of voices once free to speak, and the fear that guides our public interactions, the depth of which is unique in current times.

      Reply
      1. jim-

        I’ll keep My eyes peeled. I do feel some shifting in the tides, definitely people feel on edge about the leadership. I believe your side here, but I also know others are doing fine.
        I dislike our current culture to know every little thing that happens everywhere. When a white lady yells at a black man at a store, it’s in some news feed somewhere. Those things have always happened, but now it’s visible to the world. Maybe you’re right though. People may just be really seeing things as they are and are having enough! Thanks Lisa.

      2. jim-

        And I don’t mean to take this lightly, but as an uninterested, non allegiant lefty or righty, the conformation bias to news is staggering. It’s worse than the religious bias—Really.

      3. jim-

        My last post the comment came up as well. The goal I guess is self awareness aiming for “fairness bias”. We all have it, very difficult to escape it, but merely acknowledging it and making an effort can make all the difference.

      4. Sha'Tara Post author

        You say it so well Jim, and quote: “I dislike our current culture to know every little thing that happens everywhere.” Indeed, why do we “need” to indulge in this kind of bottom feeding? I thought that millions of years ago we had, apparently, evolved out of the muck and mire. Apparently not our minds.

    2. Sha'Tara Post author

      Right now the chances that a global populace would want a world system based on simple justice and equality… are slim to none. You have that right, and that is what concerns me.

      Reply
  5. Carmen

    Sha’Tara,
    There are people online who feel as you do. For instance, I subscribe to John Pavlovitz, a christian who echoes exactly what you say. I have also found another fellow, Padre Steve, who sees the parallels to the uprising of the Nazis — he speaks out daily against what he sees as the politicizing of the Christian Right. I think of those two as part of the Christian Left. :). They are many. I am – like you – genuinely concerned when I hear/see people supporting anything to do with tRump in Canada. We have our factions here, as well. They need to be nervously monitored. Also, we just had two well-known female reporters (in Canada) who supported Kavanaugh in his appointment and wrote disparagingly about Dr. Ford. I was/am completely horrified by that. To me, anyone who supports anything about tRump or his minions has become a character marker. I automatically slot them as having something desperately wrong with their thinking. In fact, in daily conversation the phrase, “S/he’s a Trump supporter” has become a red flag. 😦
    So I’m with you in your sentiments.

    Reply
    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      Thank you for your in-depth comment, Carmen. There is obviously, palpably, “something” truly wrong going on in this part of the world. Everything seems to be in a turmoil while the “elites” seem to be focusing on sucking as much out of the economies as they possibly can. Our cost of living in necessities is definitely going up while wages and pensions are definitely not, and that can only mean more social unrest, and soon. There is a very real attempt by supporters of the status quo to silence their opponents, whether by outright murder of critical voices, or the clearly stated expectation among our acquaintances that we will remain silent when they voice their rabid pro-Alt-Right sentiments. The aspect of this we must consider carefully is that historically speaking when such sentiments are expressed openly while the state turns to increased surveillance and suppression of dissent, the trend does not turn. There is currently nothing available within the establishment that could give opponents of “Trump doctrine” any real leverage. Logically man’s entire civilization is going down because traditionally the only method used to defeat oppression has been to pit popular violence against it and that is not going to work ever again. Those of us who oppose the structure must develop a lifestyle the system cannot comprehend, hence cannot effectively counter.

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  6. Woebegone but Hopeful

    The parallels with the 1840s to the eve of the American Civil War grow more pronounced. Maybe that war was never truly laid to rest. In the history of other parts of the world 155 years is no big deal in the lifetime of a nation.

    Reply
      1. Woebegone but Hopeful

        A march to destruction, with many causes, and great number of idiots having too much credence. Also a media war.
        If you get the chance read up a summary of ‘Bloody Kansas’…

      2. Woebegone but Hopeful

        Yep!
        Though in his case, since his grasp of History is minimal I doubt if he is aware of those events…..Unless he thinks of the ‘border ruffians’ as ‘good people’ 🙄

  7. Hyperion

    I believe that America’s political morass and the internalization of a false narrative on all sides is a symptom of the decline in our ascension of humanity. We turn to the baseness of our human nature where any means justifies the end. Delusions protect us from seeing our ultimate decline to a global broken society where greed and the clamor for power rides on the back of poverty, illiteracy, hunger, medical dependency, and militant acts of desperation. We deserve what happens next. No government possesses the humanity or power to save us from ourselves. They are us and we are them and we all go down together. Unless of course we get true and factual leadership and a global populace that wants a different future together. What are the chances of that?

    Reply
    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      Thanks for commenting, Hyperion. I thought I had replied to your comment but I don’t see it here. The chances of a global populace desire a different sort of future in harmony together, IMO are slim to none. But I’m always open to a real, positive miracle!

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      1. Hyperion

        I’m with you Sha’Tara. History seems to point to a different outcome. But, if we ignore our current trend, we’ll all get reminded that change is painful.

      2. Sha'Tara Post author

        Yes, we either accept the need to change and go about doing that or it is forced on us later and at a much higher price, e.g., all our vile and violent revolutions.

      3. Hyperion

        Absolutely, I feel we are in the midst of a global upheaval that spreads like a pandemic. We are so polarized we can’t see what is happening and if we see, we are too distracted to care. Well, as they say in The Game of Thrones, winters coming.

      4. Sha'Tara Post author

        Yes and it could well be a long and very cold “winter” for the planet. When I decided to forego politics, active religious activities and involvement in environmental issues it wasn’t because I no longer cared or caused by burn out-I had learned to deal with that. What I had to come to grips with was the need to work through dangerous and debilitating compromise to the point where only corrupt motives seem to matter. Success and power. The issues became the means to the end and then got lost. So I dropped it all, overnight and went in search of self empowerment and becoming a responsible person. My chosen modus operandi was compassion; that would be my purpose. The more I worked with that the more I became convinced that it was the answer to all our greatest social problems. It no longer mattered to me that anyone paid the least attention since this is not a path leading to popularity or notoriety! I became responsible to myself, for myself. Self empowerment. It works, and if it works for one, it CAN work for all. Choice. With this life purpose I can look the future in the eye without flinching for the future is collective whereas I am one. One doesn’t get polarized; one has no expectations. The coming “winter” means that as long as I live I’m going to have the opportunity to use those skills taught by compassion. That’s what matters now if anything matters at all, for as a Teacher wisely said, ‘when none of it matters it will all be yours.’

      5. Hyperion

        The wisdom in your comment is a clear voice in the fog offering safe harbor to lost souls. I don’t believe I have read anything so clear and concise a path forward for those who like us, hope for a different outcome. Wisdom, compassion, and empathy are the cornerstones of an enlightened humanity that, as you wrote so beautifully, lift us above the cacophony of a frenetic life. One doesn’t have to campaign to be the example for others to follow. I believe in the power of small acts of kindness. I also believe that we can’t be that example until we do as you have done and put our lives in order. Maybe our extreme disatisfaction with world leaders and their minions, of religions, and lifestyles will help more people realize that positive change begins in our minds, bodies, and souls and not in the halls of government. Well, there I go again. My hope runneth over. I do truly admire and respect your wisdom and I’m thankful you were willing to share.

  8. Phil Huston

    Unfortunately a lot of “political” thinking has nothing to do with the entirity of an entity. People see a box of bakers choice donuts. They find one they like out of the plethora of things they don’t, and hang on to it. The two party system is what’s corrupt here, not just the candidates. The lunacy looks itself in the mirror when the left and right reach their extremes. Academia has become as bigotted as the “rich white males” and is no longer a stronghold of free thinking. Everyone has chosen a side. To me Bernie Sanders is far more dangerous than Trump. But neither is truly dangerous in a system that is mired hip deep in its own bullshit. I read a post today where John Cleese is Trump bashing, someone only voted for Trump because of abortion. Did Trump take a stand on abortion? Not really. The guilty party in that scenario is not the candidate but the dumb fuck who thinks control of women’s reproductive systems should even be a topic. I know a black veteran college professor who voted for Trump because he’s sick of “seeing my country looted and raped by a bunch of ungrateful, freeloading motherf*ckers.” As if we don’t enough of that going around without any outside assistance. As if America or Canada or the UK can take care of their own messes and need, whoops, the rich brown from the east to deposit their children in our midst to be educated, never to return home and help fic THEIR fucking problems. Selfish is a universal condition. I don’t like any of them, and am sick of people taking sides and being as stupidly righteous as the bible punchers. Here’s a clue – I am one, and we don’t all think alike and following that logic even if we did there are not enough old white males of any financial status to put a president in office by ourselves. Which I did not. So pray tell where are the other votes coming from? The closeted quiet disaffected? It’s not Russians, they just infect simple, social media conscious minds. So when does the blame game and cheap shot you’re one of THEM bullshit stop and we find some consensus without finger pointing? When people aren’t afraid to say what they believe in for fear of idealogic/ethic/lifestyle boycotting? Hell yeah, fix the leaky border. Hell yeah quit letting Mexico and Canada and China give it to our economy in the ass. Hell yeah fix the mentality of short term gain for profit and commoditization of cheap slave labor toys – What, wrong box of donuts for that? Well fix the fucking donut box and that’s a start. Ideology as inflexible dogma is the issue here. How do we fix that?

    Reply
      1. Phil Huston

        Yeah. Everybody quits pointing fingers and opens their eyes past to see past a literal unchanging dogma and their wallet.

    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      That there rant, Dr. Phil, didn’t help my headache at all… I need another prescription! 🙂 Hey, I know what you are saying and I understand the frustration but we’re on this life raft and there’s that big MF dude at the back holding the paddle and he won’t let anyone else have a turn at it. And he’s not using the paddle to guide the boat but to beat others over the head with it because he’s hoarding the rations…

      Reply
  9. TheCovertAtheist

    I could never understand why so many Christians support Trump, much of what he does goes against their so called morals. But perhaps it’s mainly Christians of the fundamentalist variety. They seem to buy into his crazy narratives which he conjures up, and if what he says is true, then the fact that he ripped some people off or talked about molesting women doesn’t matter to them. He played into their emotions (mainly fear and self pride) to get his way. Many of these Trump supporters believed that having Hillary in would be the worst thing ever, like America would go to war with Russia or North Korea if it happened (I’m not exaggerating here). Plus, having a person with little political experience was a plus for many people.
    But after all this time, people still support him? I am not offering any excuses for that. I don’t follow much of what the media says about him now though, since no one there is interested in fact checking, it’s all sensationalist headlines.

    Reply
    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      Believers in general, Christians in particular and fundies at the center of the hurricane are the perfect people to follow Trump exactly because he feeds them lies and is basically calling fact checkers the liars, if not the enemy of the land. It’s a simple matter of faith and faith operates best (perhaps I should say, only operates) where/when common sense takes a leave of absence. Like Hitler, by relying on innuendoes and outright lies Trump becomes a divine figurehead. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Trump IS faith! If he could somehow manipulate enough top guns in the MIC to support his bid to declare himself dictator his popularity would at the very least double as soon as the news hit the streets, in the US, in Britain and in Canada. The sheeple have always admired and supported strong men, particularly if they got to be strong through overt violence against those who opposed their aims. My guess is, the reason Trump isn’t dictator yet is because the MIC is waiting for an even better candidate, likely the team of Jared and Ivanka. If daddy didn’t like it, he could easily be disposed of.

      Reply
  10. stolzyblog

    That was a very good pointed article, a good choice for re-blogging. I have been trying to apply my own perspective to the Trump phenomena for awhile now, because I do have an unusual vantage point. I lived my first 52 years as a US citizen, and have since migrated to Canada (going on 13 years now). I do not have time to organize these thoughts, so I will just lay out some points, perhaps for further discussion:

    1) Rampant egotism is not sustainable, even in a country as large as the U.S. The U.S. experiment can only work if there is a significant amount of civic-minded fairness informing the everyday social interactions, in business, personal and work life, and the arts, etc. The competition mantra has gone too far in America and has been over-glorified at the expense of cooperation. So-called libertarianism (as a political streak) is just another form of this underlying egotism in disguise. I mention this because someone noted that they consider Bernie Sanders a deeper threat than Trump (presumably because of his socialist colorations). This is false; the opposite is true. Sanders cares about other people, and this is evident if one looks at the litany of his opinions and political speech. Equally, it is evident that Trump does not care about other people, but does at the same time represent a kind of pinnacle of egotism.

    2) Trump could not have happened without the current flavor of the internet. His mode of ‘discourse’ depends heavily upon people having deeply fragmented attention spans, in general, along with a diminished will to (even discouraged disgust about) penterate into the depths of issues with their own thinking. Unemotional thinking. This sort of objectivity, formerly much more common in US discours. is now much rarer because people have become cognitively exhausted. The internet has made possible a new technique in politics as well as advertising and even academic discussions: manipulation by information explosion. It demands real willpower to find objective sources now, and real discriminating thought and energy, which is vital to any semblance of a civic democratic process. People are dropping out, leaving the actual fray to the well-positioned few. Any ‘healing’ of democracy must first consider very wisely what to do about, and what we socially should want from, the web. The U.S. is simply something like the canary in this regard. It could come to Canada — give it 5-10 years.

    3) I find Canadian life and society significantly more appealing, gentile, and pragmatically functional than its U.S. counterpart. Though I would not have thought this in the ’70s, say. The crazed fear of ‘socialism’ among American ‘patriots’ and many evangelicals has no basis in reality and is again, in reality, simply selfishness & fear. Life works better, I should simply works period, when social awareness and considerations of teh greater food is built in to everyday decisions and cultural activity. An obvious example of this is healthcare. To put it bluntly: Canada beats the crap out of the US system. I know. I’ve lived with both.

    4) Ethics matter. Real ethics, that which is embedded within, or should be, a mature person’s character and makeup. Certainly by the time they reach age 70. It is wishful thinking and nonsense to suppose that opportunistic pragmatic considerations can trump ethical ones when placing a person into power. The fact that this is not clearly seen, plus the fact that some people seemingly cannot even come to grips with the reality of Trump’s unprecedented lack of ethical development (also true of many he has placed around him) shows how ill the body politic, no, the body social, has become. This is opening the door to hell. Anything could come next. The chief rationalization behind Hitler was ‘pragmatism’.

    5) Real journalism has a vital role in any democracy. To the extent that there cannot be a democracy without it. One of the functions of real journalism is to explore, in depth, the ethical aspects of political deeds and statements. People have to want to pay enough attention to participate in this process. Otherwise they get what they have gotten. So far. It could get much worse. Trump is pretty dumb when it comes down to it. Next there could be more intelligent evil in power.

    6) Christianity, as an ideal and basic moral philosophy, has very little relationship to the evangelical movement or the staunch ‘religious’ support constituting Trump’s core base.

    Reply
    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      All excellent points,Robert. I stumbled a bit on #6 wondering if, when we speak of the ideal and basic (good?) philosophy of Christianity, we really have any past example to base that on. Myself, I have little, if anything, good to say about the concept since it isn’t powerful enough to have kept itself from being corrupting by religious, political and financial forces. Any individual who has led an exemplary life as a Christian most likely would have done so without the religion.

      Reply
      1. stolzyblog

        Yes, I think it would absolutely be essential to overcome or bypass the ‘religion’ (or all sectarian forms of it) in order to exemplify in life what actual Christiantiy espouses and indicates. The religion(s) has little to do with the idea. They are distortions, corruption, and flasely motivated intepretations. The most difficult thing about comprehending Chrisianity, or beginning to, is to get the religion(s) out of mind.

      2. Sha'Tara Post author

        That’s a powerful statement and I really like it. Now then, if we can imagine a Christianity without any religion, can we imagine what it would be like to live as a Christian then? Having considered it before, I quit, declaring myself to be a “failed” Christian. Is it even possible, given the comands and demands inherent to discipleship, to live such a life? In the teachings of Jesus (and I won’t enter into the historicity of this character) his disciples were promised a very special “gift” that would empower them to live such a life. That was to be the Holy Spirit. When I was in my pre-teen years I felt a strong calling to such a life of servanthood and total dedication to God. When I realized I could not handle it on my own and my religious teachers and priests were of no help at all, I began to sincerely pray for that indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. Years I spent making myself ‘ready’ for this only to be totally disappointed in the end. I had to quit and find another way.
        Christianity seems like a great idea; it would be nice to see someone daring enough to demonstrate it.

      3. stolzyblog

        well… that is quite a powerful group of statements too. 🙂 The (admirable) idiosyncracies of your formative years aside, I would say these things:

        Yes, in a sense, all who attempt the real thing are ‘failed’ Christians at the present stage of evolution. People cannot do this ideal, at present. They can only approach it. But that is still ok. We do not need 7 billion Christs to be walking around on the planet in order to safely continue. To comment upon the idea of dedicating oneself to God as a pre-teen would take things too far afield very quickly. But I would say that though you find yourself ‘disappointed’, you are in fact ‘on course’. The Holy Spirit cannot dwell within a vessel which cannot comprehend it, to some level. We are taught to think that ‘simple’ people were chosen quite randomly by Christ to be disciples, when in fact they all had many many previous lifetimes of preparation, moral preparation, for the point at which their destinies would be such that they would walk in the company of an incarnated god of the highest level, emanating completely selfless love. (or you can use the word active compassion if you wish). 2000 years ago, in Hebrew esoteric culture, it was widely realized that people had many past and future lives. All this knowledge has been eviscerated, by the scientific worldview.

        So, yes it would be nice. But I do not know if the necessary quality is daring. That is one ingredient perhaps. I think more to the point one must evolve the capacity to approach the Christ example. ‘With you for all time” means just that: over the course of numerous future lifetimes.

      4. Sha'Tara Post author

        That explanation has to rate as the very best I have ever come across. So much ‘more’ makes sense from that point of view. I thank you, from the heart.

  11. stolzyblog

    It is the fact that you take in these ideas and thoughts I pass along, and live with their considering seriously, which provides me with the deepest thanks imaginable. So I thank you & wish you well, thou warrior for goodness across incarnations. 🙂

    Reply
  12. equinoxio21

    Thank you for this post. And I have browsed the comments with interest. There does seem to be people who take the trAmp for what he is: a gangster. (I hate to think what kind of “job” has to be done) (Sounds like a bad Netflix series). There is a worldwide tendency to place such people in power… Even in France we did “secape” from Le Pen by nothing shot of a miracle, someone coming for “left field”. I am concerned.
    Take care
    B.

    Reply
      1. equinoxio21

        Actually I have a QWERTY keyboard. And when I have to use an AZERTY keyboard in France, I get confused. I just type too fast… 😉
        Le Pen is a Breton name (much to our shame). He is from La Trinité. Le Pen means “la tête” or “le chef”. Tabarly (the navigator) had a series of boats called pen-duick. Small black head. Du is black, Ick is a diminutive. It referred to a black headed seagull…
        (Did I just write all that?) 😉
        Kenavo!

      2. Sha'Tara Post author

        The “SQWERTY” was a joke… a play on the word squirt… as in, it “squirts” words you didn’t intend to write… the small black headed gull (there are several species actually) seems to be very widespread. In the top end of the Great Plains where there is no sea for a thousand miles, these gulls (I think they were the Bonaparte gull) came down in large flocks to feed in freshly tilled fields. I guess these are a land gull of lakes, marshes and muskegs.

      3. equinoxio21

        Totally right. I do have a SQWERTY keyboard. 🙂
        Had to look up the “Bonaparte gull” I had never heard of. It does breed in the taiga and boreal forest… A land gull of sorts. 🙂
        Be good.

    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      Gangsters and their endless “jobs” indeed. So far it is more or less agreed that he has managed to make America “grate” again! I like cheese but I’m not eating what falls off his grating table…

      Reply
      1. equinoxio21

        Neither do I. Let’s see what happens in mid-terms. You and I, as neighbours can only watch as the plot thickens…

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