The Language of Nature?

[thoughts on mathematics, by   ~burning woman~ ]

It has been said, it’s probably being said, it’s probably seriously believed, that mathematics is the universal language, hence nature’s language. I’ve never been able to believe that. I’d say that mathematics is the language of control. Numbers are the tools of the State, science, finance, the military and the corporation and anyone who has read the Bible will also know that numbers are really big with God. There’s even a book in there titled “Numbers.”

The bumble bee didn’t have to spend $75,000 to study Aristotle and Archimedes and learn classical mechanics to figure out how to fly, so why do we, who consider ourselves so much more advanced than a mere insect, have to do it… and still remain unable to fly without some sort of mechanical exoskeleton? A machine that is extremely polluting, extremely noisy and often used to destroy cities and annihilate people?  

I admit that I never was a fan of mathematics.  I was fine with basic arithmetic. I could add, subtract and divide along with the rest.  If asked what 99 and 98 added up to I would say 200, give or take. If you want to make an issue of the rounding, make it minus 3 which makes it 197. Simplify the picture.  When the numbers got a bit cumbersome I would pull up my slide rule… in grade nine and ten that got the math teacher’s eyebrows to rise. He’d come over to my desk and watch me slide my cursor, find a close approximate answer then arrive at the final answer using common sense. That of course was before the hand-held electronic calculators had made their appearance. For a while there, my slide rule beat Texas Instruments. It could tackle much larger numbers and render them intelligible, though why anyone would need to play with billions, trillions, quadrillions and quadzillions remains beyond me. KISS: keep it simple, stupid. However much fun zeroes are to play with, zero is zero, it’s not a magic number.

Certainly man, or some men, can calculate aspects of nature using their mathematics. Nothing too surprising there, they used to use pebbles, shells and sticks, the length of their forearm, fingers, feet, maybe even their dicks, some to their glory (Ah, that famous horn!) and some to their shame. They kept pushing the boundaries of both, the macro and the micro and they invented numbers to match their needs and count their seeds.  Those numbers were made up by men (for the most part, some women were reluctantly allowed to participate in the games in these latter years, at least in some countries. That’s another topic.)

Mathematics weren’t designed to probe infinity, they were invented to contain nature into a man-made box. By imposing math upon natural “stuff” it was possible to calculate what it was worth, how much of it could be extracted, pumped, grown or harvested and how profitable such and such a venture would be, and of course, what could be done without. We have convinced ourselves that burning the Amazon forests is totally legit: our numbers say so. If serious climate upset results, the numbers scream: ‘All the better, solutions to pollution reap more profits!’ 

Mathematics is the bible of statisticians, actuaries or risk assessors, or bean counters and bankers, of the entire sordid world where man’s numbers become the servants of sharks. Outside of the financial world mathematics is the tool man’s science uses to dissect nature; to put it in a box in order to observe it piecemeal and to waste resources polluting space while on their planet millions die of preventable causes because they’re too busy playing to notice or too busy getting rich off the death toll. May as well say it while I’m here: profits depend on numbers. Profits equal death. Death equals more profits. It’s statistically measurable as long as the hamster wheel provides the power for the computers.  

Mathematics is shackles and scalpels in various financial prisons and scientific experimental laboratories. But we can’t call the process what it is, or what it is used for, so we give it a quasi-holy title: the universal language which translates as the language of nature. Then everybody is expected to buy the line, toe the line, fall in line; i.e., to believe by getting indebted to those who “own” the numbers.

If nature has a language it isn’t complicated. I doesn’t require a great knowledge of advanced mathematics to translate it.  I learned it while running free and wild as a child on my parents’ homestead and beyond.  It contained only one word: “Be!”

I can imagine that my little rant would not sit comfortable at the Round Table surrounded by the dour-faced knights of Religion, Government, Finance, Science and Technology. My comments are probably borderline heresy in today’s world. But before I go to the stake and one of the Knights of Progress proudly lights the fire in defense of his mathematically-constructed God, let me ask this: take a look at your world and consider how much of the damage made by math-driven technology could have been avoided had those numbers been left sealed in Pandora’s box until the species developed an intelligence at least able to keep up with its mostly useless gadget driven lifestyle.  

Thanks to mathematics we’ve become globally addicted to an artificial world of planet and life destroying gadgetry. Before we plunge into developing something “cool,” something “new and improved,” shouldn’t we be counting the costs we’re imposing on the future? We don’t need mathematics to assess those costs, we just need to observe results and do some very simple projection.

But who has time to question anything these days when the big top is permanently up and the circus never leaves town? Who dares question when forced to punch a time clock “in” three times a day so as not to end up on the street? Who can argue when that finely tuned time clock says you’re 2 minutes and 4 seconds late for your shift?

32 thoughts on “The Language of Nature?

  1. Hyperion

    You crack me up Sha’Tara. Only you could take mathematics and blame the actions of humans on math. It’s like standing behind the mirror and offering proof that reflection is a lie made up by marketing hacks to sell more mirrors thus polluting the planet by industrialization and raping the world of its silicon and silver. The atomic structure and the natural laws of physics existed long before we knew about it. We used to die of illnesses before we found out about germs and discovered effective cures instead of incantations and magic spells. But, I don’t disagree with just being. No one needs to understand the implications of Planck’s Constant on our future to have a good time down at the river. But for those who use Plank’s Constant for altruistic reasons aren’t the marketing hacks or insurance moguls making a killing off of death and destruction. It’s just a fact that all aspects of the tangible and intangible universe can be accurately described by mathematics. Take a look at Google Earth and wander the globe in 3D. That is a mathematic model, nothing more, nothing less. Google Earth by itself isn’t evil until a human uses it for evil intent. Shame on that bad human. The truth remains true whether we choose to believe it or not. This is a matter of understanding, knowledge, and the wisdom to use knowledge for positive outcomes. Knowledge isn’t evil. Humans are, and smart evil humans are a real problem. No doubt. When you stand outside and don’t fly off the planet and bump your head on the moon, is that proof that gravity exists? Does it matter to most humans that we can measure very accurately the force of gravity. Of course not. But we can and that capability is used every day to solve math problems that describe solutions. Every aspect of a person’s life is surrounded by math and measurement but it’s the same as breathing. You breath and don’t think about it until you can’t breath and then it’s a subject of momentary concern before the lights go out. The fact you don’t think about breathing doesn’t make the concept of breath false. I say all of this with a light heart. No insult or patronizing intended. I use math and algorithms on quantum computers that have never once robbed me or raped me. Thank goodness for that or I’d get sweaty palms every time I saw a keyboard. Come to think of it. I’ve never robbed or raped anyone either. Retired a lot of evil people tho. Does that count?

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  2. Sha'Tara Post author

    Thanks for commenting, Daniel. I figured my comments would rattle cages, and I fully intended to do that – break the complacency. Did I ever relate to you that once, at a rather large and as usually, very staid, meeting of Coca Cola managers and some workers (myself included as union rep/shop steward) it got to a point in the meeting where it was just idiocy piling on idiocy and I let out a very loud, full bore, turkey gobble! (You learn those important things on the farm!). It brought the house down and the decision was made to adjourn for an early lunch. My supervisor asked me if I thought that had been necessary. “Absolutely” I said. Some managers later came to me and admitted that after the shock, they thought it had been great fun. My intent, of course, was to indicate, not too subtly, that if I had to work with turkeys I was free to act like one. One has to break the complacency; one has to expose idolatry, etc., etc.
    A “spiritual” person can never allow herself to be measured for a straight jacket. Man’s maths has done just that to nature: reduced it to numbers because it was discovered that “stuff” is made up of smaller stuff, all the way down to whatever can be measured. It’s a way to destroy the oneness of life and it has to be exposed. Civilizations are built on numbers: do we need civilizations? Looking at this “final” one, I say no. That too was “given” to man in order to facilitate top-down control. How do we measure control? Power? With numbers. What tool do we use to make those numbers behave on command? Mathematics. I can easily follow your argument but it isn’t my way of looking at things. I look outside the Matrix which is a control mechanism imposed on mankind in order to keep the species within its slave status. I’ve explained that before so no need to do it again. You know where I’m coming from. I may exist with a body that can be “mathematicized” but that isn’t who I am. The real me cannot be measured. Life cannot be measured. Life exists outside the Matrix and its mathematics; its science; its desperate need to control literally everything.
    Of course you use maths in your line of work, but that line of work ends when Paul says “quit working” (ref: https://randomwalkthroughintelligentuniverse.wordpress.com/2020/02/23/safe-in-the-crowd/ ) Then the roles are reversed. Math and science still exist; individual parts still remain, but man’s real need rules over those enslaving concepts. Today we work for the number systems, tomorrow they work for us. Tomorrow we no longer worship them or spend billions of dollars to justify their insatiable hunger. We look after each other instead and if that means we no longer have cell phones, so what? We will be telepaths. Telepathy doesn’t cause brain cancer.
    Don’t take this as a rebuke, or even a defense of what I said about mathematics. We’re in an open minded discussion… well, sort of? 😘

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    1. Hyperion

      Well, huff, hufff, first let me say, you are absolutely correct. Damn! That didn’t hurt at all. I’m becoming a real softie. My testosterone is probably too low. I actually get you and agree. I just had to throw in the fact we folks that do amazing things with complex math structures love it and will go without lunch just to crunch more numbers. Truth is, it’s just another tool like a gun used to do things we shouldn’t do and if you think of all humankind’s tools as the tip top of all the branches in a tree they all connect to the trunk which leads to, you guessed it, money. Lot’s of it. And most of the worlds gold is in the hands of a small number of people using people who use the tools. I like that you gobbled in the meeting. I would try that too. Most of the meetings I am forced to attend do not result in any positive action. Definitely, if you worked for Coca-Cola, I could see where you would struggle being a part of that murderous polluting drink company from Hell. Gobble away Sha’Tara! It might actually achieve far more than any corporate meeting taking place in the capitalist market place. I guess this goes back to our discussions about eschewing modern technology and socio-economic structures or States, for an intuitive and deep connection to nature or beyond nature to one of the 8 dimensions or further outside the earthian capture zone. To me, Nature would give humans term limits if not population control. We could live well for a short period of time. In this scenario there is no need for anything but the intuitive nature and skills of the individual indulging in only those necessary tasks to maintain a modest life. There really is no need for religions, States, enterprise, commerce, civilization or any other effort to organize with intent to progress, conquer, own wealth, and feel powerful. This is a short list of a massive volume of human abominations we don’t need and can chose to live without. You do crack me up tho. I see your intent and sometimes feel the way to strengthen your point is to give you another view that is precisely measured at a lagging phase angle of 37.2395 degrees to your carrier frequency. That is just enough to bring out a WTF moment and more intellectual discussion. Forgive me, but ranting with you is a delight because you handle it so well. Okay, high five and f**k math and Coca-Cola. What’s next? 🤓

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      1. Sha'Tara Post author

        Thanks for that great follow-up comment. Nice to interact with thinking people!!! Quote: “Okay, high five and f**k math and Coca-Cola. What’s next? 🤓”
        Next, after the System is exposed for the death plague it is, is getting out of here, upgrading some flying and strategy skills and joining the “rebel alliance”, what else? What intrigues me the most about this is that I’m totally serious. For some I’ve obviously overdosed on Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek and other science “fiction” stories but as I observed yesterday’s sci-fi become today’s reality and at the same time wondered where all the prophets and seers had gone to, I put 2+2 together and lo and behold, actually came up with 4 as the right answer, 4 being the ‘real’ reality. Today’s prophets and seers write science fiction, what else? When I learned what was going on behind the program curtain; why supposed intelligent creatures endlessly chose to repeat their worst and most nightmarish mistakes, I had some serious decisions to make: continue to put faith in tweaking the System, or turn all of my energy in ferreting out its weaknesses and prepare to join in the war to defeat it. I chose the latter mostly because I’ve never been a planet person. With the help of a friend who did Astrology I discovered I was in actual fact, an airhead! Librans (air sign) are considered the “thinkers” of the Zodiac. This type of thinking cannot be limited or constrained and long ago I stopped apologizing for always seeing “more” in and under every situation I encountered. If I see a flat tire I don’t just want to locate the nail in it and see it patched, I want to know why the tire didn’t deflect the nail (faulty construction?) and why the nail ended up in the tire instead of wherever else. To me there are no accidents – everything has to have a logical source and be the result of some intelligent predetermined purpose. If I were a “planet person” I’d have gone loopy long ago trying to analyze all the things that go awry here. So I go looking for the source of ALL of earth’s problems. Admittedly I have little or no interest in anything that works according to intent, I’m only interested in those things that don’t work. A solution seeker; problem solver. Obviously I can’t prevent accidents or diseases, but I don’t accept that they can be given any legitimacy. Not being attached to any belief system or blind acceptance of ‘what is’ I can let my mind go in search of esoteric solutions to all problems instead of focusing piecemeal on each and every occurrence of an unacceptable event. There aren’t “diseases” as in the plural, there is only one disease. That’s the one I’m going after! Kiss: keep it simple, stupid! Not a bad mantra. People tend to complicate the simplest things but it’s how we’re being taught. Follow the money and accumulation of power: the more complex a thing can be made, the more power and profit those who manipulate its complexity will reap, and the more dependent will be those who no longer have any clue why their stomach is upset or why their car won’t start. Modern slavery is a massive program of disempowerment through the dumbing down of the global population with “science,” technology, drugs and “medical procedures” not to mention corporate lies, propaganda and the take-over of the State law-making apparatus. Let me out of here! 😣

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      2. Hyperion

        It’s an overwhelming task to sort through all we know about what is going wrong. I think SciFi writers are those who do have a kind of prescience and a strong intuitive mind where they can construct future worlds and the attending challenges very close to reality of the future. Dan Simmons is one who very accurately describes system failings that come true in the near future and he has no way of knowing he is accurately describing a future outcome unless he can envision it, describe it, then watch it take place. All of the virus related zombie movies start with a pandemic and depict a rapid expansion. This is what is happening with the Corona virus. It is especially worrisome because of its ability to spread to other humans from great distances on air currents or water surface. We know what kills it but we don’t have the method to attack the virus yet in a useful way. To kill it, you have to do one of two things; expose the virus to a specific protein chain or alter the virus in the body where our defenses can attack it like attaching a flashing light so the bug patrol can see it. The only problem is it can mutate rapidly and cloak itself from antibodies. So now, SciFi writers will seize on this and we’ll have plenty of material to study.

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      3. Sha'Tara Post author

        It’s so easy to fall for the attack; to rise up to a sudden challenge by a new and unknown challenger and focus entirely on that part of the war. While we are thus engaged in a sort of “battle of the bulge” the enemy can recoup somewhere else, or engage in a pincer movement. Had Germany possessed deeper resources of materiel and men, that battle could have turned out very bad for the invaders. Or had the German High Command been smarter, they could have used this counter to negotiate some sort of peace and talk the western allies to join in the war against Stalin. That could have changed everything… but I digress of course.
        When I retired from CC in 2011 it wasn’t mandated. They asked me to stay on but I had discovered that I had reached my own level of incompetence regarding computerized, essentially smart AI vending equipment. I didn’t want to take the next step and become a Geek. In retrospect I made another of those life choices that always turned out for the better. I began my life working the soil and I will end it the same way, using hand tools, feeling the earth, grass, rocks and stones under my feet and appreciating a certain relationship with small plants, shrubs and trees. Thankfully no domesticated beasties involved in this last phase of earth work, well except a brief foray among high strung horses on the Connemara boarding, breeding and training farm. Digressing again.
        I think that when “Life” puts something together (my body for example) I should leave as much of it as possible to take care of itself. I need to trust my immune system when the fear of pandemics surrounds me and refuse to run to the easy fixes offered by Big Pharma’s drug cartels or go and swim in the Pay to Play medical shark pools. I don’t see myself, or anyone else, as a plethora of bits and pieces intricately embedded together to make a working whole. I just see a whole designed to function impeccably. If something does happen to this perfect mechanism it’s either because I’ve been delinquent in the part of its maintenance entrusted to me, or some nefarious force is messing with me. I know I must deal with both of these challenges and I do/will but it won’t be using the standard, accepted, mostly “fail-but-trust-anyway” $$$ system.

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      4. Hyperion

        I think the lesson here is you made a better choice, the path was clearer, the work rewarding. I’m slightly behind. I work with good people but the high up muckity-mucks are pointless bureaucrats destroying every good thing accomplished in the last 45 years. It’s time to bail and go on a walkabout, do some yoga and Tai-Chi, eat ice cream for breakfast and cake for dinner. I can stay up all night and sleep all day or do it the other way round. I plan on getting some sleep as a major retirement goal.

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      5. Sha'Tara Post author

        If retirement is carefully planned and a lifestyle developed previously to match resultant income and conditions, it should be taken at the earliest possible time. I spent years “training” myself into my new lifestyle before taking that irrevocable step and even then I was nervous about “time” – how I would use all that “time” without falling into boredom and depression. But that was never to be an issue. Between paid jobs and judicious volunteering, it seems time has only speeded up. Days, weeks, months and years go much faster now than they ever did working the corporate treadmill and as I approach the terminal my excitement rises with the possibilities. Retirement is a serious step, not to be thought of as an endless vacation!

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      6. Hyperion

        I like how you ended your advice. Indeed, I we think of retirement as an endless vacation we have hardwired an expectation that cannot be met. I may continue wearing a watch just to make it to appointments on time but I definitely won’t be watching my watch. I actually talked to my physical therapist about volunteering at her clinic and she said she would pay me to volunteer at her clinic. I have a trauma EMT and health physicist background but did not keep up my certifications. Her clinic is the warmest happiest medical treatment facial I have ever seen in all of my life and as a disabled crotchety old vet, happy clinics are good clinics for me. I’d actually be contributing to helping people get well again and for me, it seems a noble cause but by no means light work. It would keep me active. I might stop writing silly stories and blog holistic health routines people can do for themselves. Our millennials and Gen A are very unhealthy with an estimated 70% facing physical and mental challenges that interfere with normal activities and learning. That is a scary number and I want to do something about it. It’s a dream at the moment but I have a year to make it a reality or wake up, slap myself and wonder what the hell I was thinking.

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      7. Sha'Tara Post author

        You would be an excellent therapist, IMO, based on what I’ve learned about you in these exchanges. Why not give it a serious whirl? A degree of selflessness is involved, no doubt, and that always makes one feel younger. At the deepest core of our being, we are wired to be givers though our superimposed programming won’t let us go there. That programming can be broken and we can at least get a taste of what “living” can actually entail. (Now to go and see what those rebel Cybrids are up to… (https://returnofdragons.wordpress.com/2020/02/24/march-of-the-cybrids-18/)

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      8. Hyperion

        I promise to break loose from my programming and do feel I have made progress. I think to practice the compassion we talk about is the way for me to realize a more true existence on this angry blue planet.

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      9. Sha'Tara Post author

        Anger is a big problem. I acknowledged some time ago that I would always feel the anger of the world but taught myself to not share in it, i.e., I did not have to allow myself to get into an emotional state about my feeling(s) of anger. Again, the power of detachment.

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      10. Hyperion

        I do understand how difficult it is not to allow people to pull one down into their petty world. I fall for it from time to time and then chastise myself for being fooled into engaging. Reminding myself to disconnect is a daily exercise. I’m getting good at it now.

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  3. deteremineddespitewp

    I like numbers. I used to sit in school with my standard issue exercise book which had all the ‘times tables from 2 x 2, right up to 12 x 12, in little columns of the 2s then the 3s and so forth and I could make all sorts of patterns out of them.
    I like the way folks can fill up two blackboards with all sorts of signs, letters and squiggles and tell me that there are now 42.4 dimensions, and 37.888 of them exist somewhere else.
    I like the fact that pi is a recurring number for ever and ever, although you have to learn umpteen sorts of algebra and stuff to find that out.
    I like sines, co-sines, tangents and irrational numbers even though I have not a clue what the frib’ anyone means by them, even if they-talk-verrry-verrrry-slow-l-ly to me.
    I like them because they are abstracts which become constructs and live in strange worlds of triangles and cones, and circles and all sorts of objects.
    I like them because they were here before us and will be here after we are gone.
    As to what folk who are not involved in the arts and sciences of numbers do with them to argue their case….
    Well I’ve read ‘Nineteen Eighty-Four’ and will never forget the extracts regarding the chocolate ration.
    And we can’t blame number for the way we carry on, after all Fire was here way before us and look how much trouble we caused we that.
    I like numbers.

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    1. Sha'Tara Post author

      Great comment Roger. As I was reading down I started to laugh out loud, imagining the comment as a song being done on Sesame Street! “I am the Count and I like numbers, I like numbers; some are friendly twins, 2+2 gives me four, and I know what for. Some I have yet to make friends with, they are quite strange; some make pictures of boxes and circles and curving lines… Oh yes, I like numbers! I like numbers anywhere, in the air, or in a friendly pair and some get tangled in my hair! (and etc.)
      What I was aiming for was exposing the “numerolatry” of modern number usage to invent foolish scenarios or to use numbers to exploit, compete, oppress, create weapons of mass destruction and threaten the destruction of a world and its sentient life because by becoming simply numbers, life no longer retains any sacredness. The idea that we can communicate with the Universe using computers to add up bits and pieces after separating them from the whole as if knowing the parts of an atom can give us access to the Universal mind – what folly, what hubris! It’s like believing that if we can count how many windows and doors are on a house we can determine how the architect designed it and how the workers built it… and how long it took and why it was done, or for whom and all the rest of its history. Meanwhile the entire point of this universal exercise is lost, minimized and denigrated and our worship of numbers plunges us into a maelstrom of chaos from which we can no longer extricate ourselves. Replace numerolatry with reverence; hubris with humility, growth with compassion. Though it is too late for man as a species, it is never too late for an individual.

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      1. deteremineddespitewp

        Oh yeah the Count, now his voice is going to stick in my head the next time I am doing the household budget (my designated task, by Sheila, I present the papers for her perusal and approval).
        For me there is a purity in numbers, that is numbers there for their own sake. As I perceive the situation we are trying to understand the Universe (as is our nature to do so) and the only way we currently perceive is by numbers, which is probably only an approximation.
        One of our failures is to find ways to use things for harmful purposes.
        ‘Oooh rock. I can use rock to dig a hole and crack big branch,’
        ‘Huh! You dig hole on my bit. I don’t like you. I can use rock to throw at you,’
        ‘Humph! That so? I get bigger rock to throw at you!’
        ‘Hah! Well I get lots of small rocks to throw at you, and hurt you lots of times,’
        ‘Well I get lots of more rocks to throw at you,’
        ‘How you know you got more rocks than me?’
        ‘Ah! I learn numbers I can count rocks,’
        See what I mean?

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      2. Sha'Tara Post author

        The basis of fighting wars: so many boots on the ground, so many rifles, so many rounds, so many tanks, planes, subs, destroyers, carriers; so much artillery, such-and-such a distance and trajectory… and now it’s done with computers and artificial intelligence which is all about algorithms which are all about numbers… The numbers used to “dissect” life are the same numbers used to destroy it. We now have “numbers” on every item of food we consume… it’s not the numbers’ fault but that’s what I was getting at.

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      3. deteremineddespitewp

        I ‘loved’ the phrase ‘The rate of inflation is going down,’…prices is still going up folks, but not by so much.
        Then there’s the ‘value’ of companies or how much a billionaire has……Have they actually got that much coin stowed away….nope all on ‘paper’. Have faith in the markets and their numbers.
        I wonder how we would manage with a numberless society? There’s a book there somewhere.

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      4. Sha'Tara Post author

        There was also that “double entendre” phrase coined in the 70’s, “broadening the tax base” used to justify unrestricted residential, commercial and industrial “development” over protected agricultural lands and other naturally sensitive areas. A numberless society would have to be hovering in the neighbourhood of a utopia. You’d find no capitalism there… If numbers lost their purported meaning this entire civilization would collapse in a heartbeat.

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      5. deteremineddespitewp

        Based on my experience working for the UK version of the IRS or CRA.
        When a politician says ‘Tax Cuts’ or ‘Value for the Taxpayers’ or ‘The Taxpayers…..(fill in the blank)……Switch off, it all translates into.
        ‘We’re juggling the books. You’ll pay the same (or more) but you’ll think you are not’

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      6. Sha'Tara Post author

        Don’t you get the impression that under our current out-of-control predatory capitalist system, everything is a massive con game? What is surprising is that there remains a certain degree of “infra structure” that still functions within the social gambling casino.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. deteremineddespitewp

        The trick is to con the con into making it think you have been conned.
        Once you are in state where you question everything, in a healthy way, then you have a chance of staying aloft.
        And when you can challenging whatever unhealthy system ‘they’ (there are lots of ‘theys’) are trying to foist on you.
        Thence balance ‘Trust’ ‘Scepticism’ and ‘Denial’.
        While hoping for a smidge of encouragement….
        Never said it wuz a perfect system…

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  4. franklparker

    Haven’t had time to read all of the comments but have enjoyed the ones I did read. Thanks Sha for inciting this one! I’ll do the dirty and quote something back to you: “everything has to have a logical source and be the result of some intelligent predetermined purpose.” That sounds to me like a pretty accurate description of mathematics. As Hyperion pointed out, its not math that’s the problem – math exists whether you like it or not. It’s how humanity uses it that is the problem. And that comes back to greed and selfishness – we all of us have notions of what is the best way to proceed and resist anything that goes against that. Those with power mostly get their way and sometimes it’s the right way (for me if not for you!)

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  5. Sha'Tara Post author

    Thanks for your comment, Frank. Yes “math” exists, well sort of. Actually, math is an invention used to measure stuff. If wouldn’t have to exist, the stuff would happily carry on without our math. The problem with “civilized” man is inventing tools for specific purpose or need today without the discipline to keep that tool locked in for that particular purpose. Remember the lesson with the Coke bottle in ‘The Gods must be Crazy’?

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  6. selizabryangmailcom

    I guess I did the comments thing wrong ’cause I don’t think it ever went through…..
    Oh, well. Enjoying the discussions anyway….

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